What does a Gen Zer think about aging and older women? As it turns out, plenty. Young women in their twenties are focused on careers, potential partners, finances, and friendships--just as it should be. But they are burdened with the expectations of our youth-obsessed culture, in many ways, just as older women are. I hope you’ll listen to my 23-year-old guest, Lia Kahan, as we talk about her ideas about aging women, the media portrayal of older women, the stereotypes, the hype around self-care, and so much more.
What does a Gen Zer think about aging and older women? As it turns out, plenty. Young women in their twenties are focused on careers, potential partners, finances, and friendships--just as it should be. But they are burdened with the expectations of our youth-obsessed culture, in many ways, just as older women are. I hope you’ll listen to my 23-year-old guest, Lia Kahan, as we talk about her ideas about aging women, the media portrayal of older women, the stereotypes, the hype around self-care, and so much more.
Do you feel overlooked and invisible because you're an older woman? Have you had those age jump days when you look in the mirror and swear that you're looking at your mother? Do you feel the clock ticking and wonder whether you have enough time to check off all the items on your bucket list? Hello, i'm Jane Leder and I'm the host of Older Women and Friends, a podcast about and four older women that kick stereotypes to the curb. We older women are the keepers of stories, and guests on Older Women and Friends share their stories about love, loss, dreams, friendships. But let's not kid ourselves Aging can be a messy, complex affair. But older women have been around the block a few times and learned a thing or two, and this podcast celebrates their lessons.
Speaker 1:In many cultures, older women are revered as the keepers of stories. They're wise women whose advice is sought and shared, but not so much in our world. But we can change that and put older women back where they belong at the top of the food chain. So put in your earbuds and join me on Older Women and Friends. Hi, i've asked Leah Khan to join me to talk about her views on older women and aging. Leah is almost 23, a college graduate who, at least for the moment, is working in Boston as a public health and climate justice professional. I'm anxious to hear what Leah has to say about women and older women, and so I guess, leah hi, how are you?
Speaker 2:Hi, I'm doing well. How are you? I'm so honored to be on your podcast, so thank you so much for having me. Jane, My pleasure.
Speaker 1:So at what age do you think a woman can be, or is considered to be, older?
Speaker 2:That's a really good question and I think that as I've gotten older and have had more multi-generational friendships, that number has changed. for me, i think it's like when your parents are in their 40s, they're the oldest people you've ever met, and now that my parents are in their late 50s and early 60s, it's interesting. I think that older starts in your 50s and 60s and I think that you don't get the title of an elder, a cool person in your community until you're probably in your 70s.
Speaker 1:So that would apply to me. So I am an elder, a wise woman. How do you think that older women are portrayed in our culture?
Speaker 2:I think that older women in our culture I've been pretty disappointed with the way that women and, i think, elders in general are treated. It's actually because in most cultures and I think for most of history, older women have been revered and looked up to for their status as like knowledge bearers and culture bearers, and so it's disappointing to see the way that older women are now almost infantilized and not treated with respect and just as like people in society that like have a lot to contribute and are like full people with full life.
Speaker 1:So what are some of the stereotypes about older women that are disappointing for you and certainly disappointing for older women like me?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that one of the big ones is just seeing older women as their roles in terms of mother or grandmother or retiree. I think that in the media, that's what you often see. I think that there are also in the media especially like, depictions of older women not being all with it and being a little crazy and being a little like, like it goes beyond the like oh, you don't care about society's expectations to be almost comical. I don't think that it's very true, And so that's something that I've seen that has been disappointing and like not something to look forward to. is someone like in their 20s that would love to get to be in their 70s one day.
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting because we have a lot of icons, quote, unquote, role models in the media, i guess, who are coming out on Instagram or they're making comments during a concert If in fact they're a singer And I'm just wondering if seeing and hearing those women makes a difference. Is it something that you're aware of at all?
Speaker 2:I think it does make a difference. I think that it's probably something that I'm not as aware of as I might be if I was following more people on that demographic And I hope to follow more but I think that it's really like good and refreshing to see that like your life doesn't end when you turn 50. And that in fact, it like can get better and can get a lot better. And so seeing older women I mean one of my idols is Jane Fonda And to see her do really important finite justice work, really important social justice work, Well, also having this full career, having these full friendships and relationships, has been, I think, really impactful in the way that I see other older women and see myself as an older woman one day.
Speaker 1:Despite the fact that she's very open about this, that she's probably had I was going to say therapy. She's had what's the word now? I'm forgetting. She's had work done on just about every part of her body. What do you think about that? Or is that something that's a good thing, a bad thing? How do you evaluate women who have that kind of surgery to, I'm assume, look younger?
Speaker 2:I think that I never want people to feel like that's something that they need to do in order to have a career or in order to be treated well and perceived by society well, and I would guess that a lot of women younger and older women that do have plastic surgery or other kinds of work done are hoping to be taken more seriously, and I think that's really upsetting that, in order to be taken seriously in different professional settings or personal settings, that women feel like they need to look younger or feel like they need to look a certain way, and so I think that's how I feel about it.
Speaker 2:I think that it's everyone's choice and every woman's choice. I just hope that it's a choice being made out of what you genuinely want to do rather than what you feel like you need to do in order to be taken seriously or in order to be seen as your full self, and it's crazy, because I see ads on television with these women who I'm sure in their 20s, and they're getting Botox and they have tiny wrinkles that I would gee whiz.
Speaker 1:What are you complaining about? And they're getting their lips pumped. And it's a very youth obsessed culture, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's so much money in anti-aging I mean, that's something that I think about often is like none of this is necessary, but it is making people billions of dollars to buy skin smear and to do different diets and all sorts of things, and so I think it's something that I struggle with because there's so much focus on looking youthful and when you're surrounded by that kind of media, you're like, oh, do I want to look like this? Like is that what I should be striving for? Like in my 20s and as I get older? but I think something that helps me is realizing that this is not. The intention of these industries is not to uplift women, uplift people Like. The intention is to take our money and make us feel bad about how people are.
Speaker 1:And I interviewed a woman, nancy Collier, and she talked a lot about definitions of self care and how the one that you were just describing is the one that is pervasive, yet in fact, self care is really something that is internal, not external.
Speaker 2:Yes, it so does not have to be a commodity. I really like that. the focus on like self care looks a lot of ways, but it's trying to be sold to us in a bottle, do you?
Speaker 1:have any friends who are older, so I'm excluding your mom or other relatives, but in terms of friendships people you work with or you've met in social circles- I do.
Speaker 2:I think that the range of older friends depends. I think that in terms of like close friends, older feels like 30s to me because I'm recently post undergrad, but I think that in terms of people that I would consider friends and mentors at work, or even like my parents friends I don't know if that counts directly, but I think that I do really value my friendships and relationships with older folks.
Speaker 1:What do you think they bring to the table that's different from your relationships with younger women So much more like wisdom and grounding.
Speaker 2:I think that it's it can be so refreshing to be around older women because I'm like, oh like. First of all, it's refreshing to know that no one ever really has their life together And it feels like you don't need to do all of the rushing because you see these women that you really respect and look up to and feel like have their life together and they are still working through it and still navigating their lives, and that's refreshing. And then it's also refreshing to see people who do have their lives together a little more than you. I think that I'm always so amazed and struck by how, how people live through history and can talk about it, and I think that we're always living through history, and so, even women that are 10 years older or women that are 50 years older, it's really interesting to hear their perspectives on their lived experiences.
Speaker 1:And looking at it from the other point of view, what is it that someone like you adds to the conversation? What do you think a relationship with an older woman gives to them, gives to her, Oh good question.
Speaker 2:I mean I'd like to think that I'm bringing something. I think that there's just so much value in diverse experiences and I think that youth are such a youth I mean I would help people in my demographic, even though at least younger people bring like a lot of freshness. I think that we're both populations that are traditionally like marketed to or taken seriously. I think that, like, youth and elders aren't people that are taken seriously. I think that we bring energy. I think that older folks also bring energy, but there's definitely like another kind of energy in Winston especially, like in a world where there's so much information and so much growth happening in terms of like, equity and justice.
Speaker 1:You are wonderful. I knew that this would be a great interview And I guess just one last question, and that is how do you think younger women can actually change the narrative of women and aging? What is it that your demographic can do to help the rest of us and also pave the way for yourselves?
Speaker 2:You've said some questions. I think that one thing is just the language that we use. I think that the more like aware that I am about ageism and the way that older folks and especially older women are treated, the more that I see examples like in just the way that we talk people driving like a grandma and all the language that we use about fear of aging, and I think that's something that my generation. I think that we talk about language a lot and that a lot of language is changing, and I think that's one way that we can change the way that people think about aging and reduce fear and like encourage the idea that it's a huge privilege to get older and it's a huge privilege to like be someone in your community that has looked through a lot and that continues to have experience. Like you talk a lot about storytelling in your podcast, which I love because I think that's such a huge value of getting older, and like sharing wisdom, helping us make fewer mistakes. Yeah, so I think they're changing language.
Speaker 2:I think that there's a lot to be done in terms of literal infrastructure in our society.
Speaker 2:I think a lot about accessibility. There's something in disability justice, like literature, that I really like or in conversations where you're either disabled now or you're likely going to be disabled at some point in your life. That revolutionized the way that I thought about things, because if you're young and not disabled, you're like this is great, my worst fear is getting disabled in the future, which then it's like if you have the privilege of growing old like things are going to start hurting and things are going to start getting harder, and I would really love to see my generation do more work about how do we do wheelchair rams, because people get into wheelchairs and that doesn't mean they're any less cool or sexy. That just means that we need to make sure that they can use our resources. So I think there's a lot we can do there And just reducing barriers reducing barriers in the workplace for older women to like be seen as full co-workers and not people that should have retired Although more power to everyone that's retired as well.
Speaker 1:Well, you talk about it being a privilege to know and learn from older women, and I want to close by saying it's a privilege to know you.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. It's such a privilege to know you And I so appreciate you having me on the podcast. Bye, bye, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for joining me on this episode of Older Women and Friends Speaking of friends. Please tell yours about this podcast And if you'd like to contact me with comments or suggestions, you can email me at olderwomenandfriendspodcastatgmailcom. And while you're at it, please take a few minutes to write a review. It's really easy. Go to Apple Podcasts type in older women and friends, scroll down the page and click on reviews. Until next time.