Love After 50: How to Find It, Enjoy It, and Keep It with Francine Russo

Speaker 1: 0:05

Hi, I'm Jane Leder, host of Older Women and Friends. You know, when it comes right down to it, I find aging to be a complex affair Highs, lows and everything in between. But as I see it, the one constant is change, and the key is how we adjust, how we transition. Do we start a new career, write that book we've had rolling around in our heads for years, move to warmer climbs, to be near our grandchildren, continue teaching or researching or coaching other women? Or do we just hang out, travel and have a good time? The guests on Older Women and Friends have many stories to tell, to share, about what they've been up to and what they've learned along the way. So turn up the volume and join me on Older Women and Friends.

Speaker 1: 1:14

When I asked freelance writer and journalist Francine Rousseau to be a guest on Older Women and Friends, her book Love After 50, caught my attention. But when I started to dig further, I discovered that Francine's career includes covering the Boomer Beak for Time Magazine for 10 years, serving as a relationship expert and writer and writing about everything from sex to siblings, from grandparenting to adult children. Francine's personal story propelled her to write Love After 50 and so much more. Francine, welcome to Older Women and Friends. It's a pleasure to be with you, so I mentioned your personal story and so I wonder if you could please share that, as it relates to love.

Speaker 2: 2:07

I will. I would just appreciate if people knew the full title of my book because, believe it or not, now that so many people are dating at older ages, there's more than one book called Love After 50. And mine is called Love After 50, how to find it, enjoy it and keep it. So there's the commercial, and now we can move on.

Speaker 1: 2:29

Well, that's fine, and I know we all work really hard to get a title that's unique and then, darn it, somebody else comes up with the same one. So I understand and appreciate you mentioning that. So what is it then about your personal story as it relates to love? That I find interesting and possibly was one of the reasons for writing the book.

Speaker 2: 2:53

I tell people I have been widowed twice and they say, oh my god, you poor thing, how horrible. And, of course, being widowed was devastating both times. I was widowed the first time when I was 46, after a very long, pretty good marriage. I spent 10 years between my two marriages, between the death of my first husband and getting married to my second husband, and during that time I learned pretty much everything I needed to learn about how to find love again, including what I needed to do for myself and how I needed to grow, what was important to look for in a relationship, how to date, how to do it online. I learned all that stuff.

Speaker 2: 3:41

And then when, unfortunately, tragically, my second husband died after just five years, I, after a few years of grieving and dealing with life and our children, I looked for another partner, because I happened to be one of those people who's happiest being partner, and this time it was very quick. It didn't take 10 years because I knew exactly what I was doing and I now have been with my partner, Michael, for actually we're celebrating eight years together next month. We met the day after Valentine's Day and he's 81 and I'm 77. We have our issues, but we're very happy together. We're both snugglers. That's important to me. We both learned a lot about life and can talk about stuff we need to talk about, so I'm happy to share what I've learned with other people.

Speaker 1: 4:41

We're looking forward to that. You mentioned that during that 10-year period, you needed to do some work on yourself. You needed to understand better a good relationship and why yours worked or they did not. So there's a lot of what I call homework to do, I feel, before we're ready to actually go out and start a new relationship. Do you agree with that? Not only do I, agree with it.

Speaker 2: 5:11

But what you call homework, I call head work, and definitely the one love after 50 is do the head work. It's really about being okay before you go looking for a partner. It's okay to be lonely and to want a partner, but it's not okay to be, as I was, desperate, terrified to be alone. My girlfriends would say, prince, it's not very attractive to be desperate. I said I know, but I'm desperate. What can I do? Well, in fact, I did in fact have to do stuff. I had to make my life okay, which I'm not very much of a hobby person.

Speaker 2: 5:53

But I rediscovered my childhood life of cycling when I did it and there were bicycle paths being built all over New York by the river. When I was cycling with the wind in my hair, I could do it by myself. I was happy, I was going from one place to another. That was something I did a lot when I felt like I needed something. It satisfied me. I also learned to go out to a movie on my own and sit in a cafe and watch people go by and chat with them. I'm not going to tell you that it was better than being with someone on a date or on a date with somebody you love. But it was okay, I was okay. That's what people need to do. If you're divorced or widowed, you need to allow yourself time to make peace with whatever happened and be in a place where you're really emotionally available to move forward.

Speaker 1: 6:56

Are there any statistics? I've always wondered, just based on my personal experience, that it seems as if men are in a rush, not necessarily to do that head work but to jump back into a relationship. Are there any statistics that support that?

Speaker 2: 7:14

I have no idea, but I have met men who are just the kind of men who are used to their wives taking care of them. But most of the men that I have met and I think that it's more true of men in the generation before ours. I think that's less true now because I think our edges have been more equal. Yeah, I don't know that men are necessarily more anxious to rush back into a relationship than women.

Speaker 1: 7:46

Maybe that was just me looking at my own divorce and wondering what each of us was going to do. Well, your book came out at a very interesting time, it seems to me right around the time when there was this. I don't know if it was a new term or not, but they referred to this as a tsunami of later life love, and I'm wondering your take on what's fueling that.

Speaker 2: 8:18

That perhaps statistics on that looks like real them all, but basically baby boomers are living 30 years longer than people did a couple of generations ago, and when there has been actually a tsunami of late life divorces, people are divorcing in their 50s far more than they ever did before, and so a lot of those people before they divorce are looking at their lives, their relationships, saying you know what? I have a lot of good years left and this relationship isn't satisfying. I either want to be on my own or I want to find a better relationship, and but this is true for both men and women and of course, if women decide to leave, they leave single men and vice versa. So there are lots of men available and there are lots of women available and we are all finding each other.

Speaker 1: 9:16

And how do we go about that? I know you talk a little bit about dating apps, dating sites. I also appreciate the word perseverance and you just discussed that in your own search. Initially, that perseverance lasted for 10 years, a decade before you found a special person. So what does, in this case, a woman do who's listening to this podcast and she's finding her in that situation? Let's say she's a boomer, or at least 50 plus, and she is coming out of an unsatisfying relationship and would like to find love when was widowed.

Speaker 2: 9:58

The first time, I asked the 50 people too if they knew anybody to fix me up with. I think I had one or two not very good blind dates. However, once I started dating online and I went to the biggest website, which was matchcom which I still recommend, although there are lots of good sites I found there I live in New York City, so I found there might have been 50 guys that I was presented with who lived within 10 miles of me, who were in my age range, my general education range, were divorced or widowed, were looking for a real relationship, and it was just astonishing. Now, what is true is I was prepared to have 50 coffee dates and most of those people I didn't have chemistry with, but they were perfectly nice people, and so there are a lot of perfectly nice people out there and you have to meet them, or at least you know you do a few emails or texts or whatever. I believe in having a phone call first and then deciding if you want to invest, you know, half an hour to an hour in having coffee with somebody, and those states are all over the place. Rarely are they? Terrible? Sometimes they're boring, sometimes they're a little uncomfortable, sometimes they're very nice and I think the other person's really, you know, a possibility and he's looking everywhere in the room but at me and I know he can't wait to get out of here and that's just the reality of it.

Speaker 2: 11:41

I you know, chemistry is funny, it's mysterious, and I learned to say. This doesn't mean there's something wrong with me, because chemistry, I interviewed 50 people for love after 50, at least People who, almost all of whom, ended up being part of a couple, sometimes after looking a very long time, you know, and one of them said to me I liked him right away. I thought, chemistry, he was teasing me like my older brother, except that's so comfortable, you know. Another one was in the corporate world and had the same points of view about it and really could connect and hold stories. And then there's what I call unhealthy chemistry. You know I was so nice to this guy, but the thing is he's attracted to women who remain and put him down.

Speaker 2: 12:32

You think that's not happening. That does happen. So you can't make it about something being wrong with you, because people worry about rejection and I'm saying one. That's not what it's about. It's not about you being rejected, it's about whether the chemistry works for both of you. And the other thing is, even if somebody does say listen, this isn't working for me, after a few days or never, emails you back when you think you wrote this fabulous email. How could anybody versus you know I say we're older, We've survived divorce or widowhood, we've lost people we love. You know, if some guy doesn't write back or stop stating us, we can survive this, Really we can survive this, you know. Just move on.

Speaker 1: 13:24

Well, you talked about. You're talking about moving on, and we did discuss, and you've just mentioned, recovering from the emotional damage of divorce, for example. I know that you offer many other suggestions and I'll go back to this whole issue of your head work and not your homework, which I am going to adopt. I like that very much. What, for example, are some other issues that may come up as we're making a decision about whether or not we would like a new partner and, if we do, whom that might be? For example, what if you have some differences in terms of money or culture? Are those blocks that are going to prevent a good relationship, or are there ways that we can get over those?

Speaker 2: 14:18

Well, it depends on who you are. I have a chapter of in love after 50 code get past the automatics, or you know? I think a lot of us when we were younger, we had certain things. Our partner had to be Somebody appropriate that our parents would approve of. That our parents are probably dead now, but even if they're not, we don't have to please them. One of the wonderful things about older relationships is we're not. This person is not going to be a parent for my children. We are not going to make our fortune together. We come together as two separate individuals. We have our own lives, we have our own families. Probably we have our own financial situation and we can come together and all we're looking for which is a lot, is to be real, to really connect on an emotional level, to be good friends, to be lovers, to enjoy each other and enjoy life together.

Speaker 2: 15:19

Now there are a lot of women I interviewed who said, oh, there's nobody appropriate for me, but there's nobody of the right religion, there's nobody who makes a certain amount of money a year, has a certain advanced degree. And they say, oh, I don't want to settle and I think you know what it's the wrong attitude. You don't need all of those things. You need the emotional qualities. And if you have somebody who loves you and adores you and snuggles with you and makes you laugh, I don't call that settling. That's a great relationship. And when you think that way, that you think about settling, it's a way of preventing yourself from seeing how many people you might have a good relationship.

Speaker 1: 16:08

And you talk about the connection, and I know that in one interview you did and don't ask me which one you talked about intimacy and you had a discussion about what intimacy is, what it looks like and why it's so important.

Speaker 2: 16:28

Are you talking about sexual intimacy?

Speaker 1: 16:31

No, not necessarily, although that's certainly a part.

Speaker 2: 16:34

yes, Well, basically, you need somebody that you feel you can be yourself with. Well, you don't have to worry about being judged, put on attitudes or do anything that's not real, and you need to allow yourself to be vulnerable and to say when there's something that's bothering you or something you need, and know that person well, maybe not satisfy all those needs, but well, here you are.

Speaker 1: 17:04

did not judge you and be okay with who you are and you did bring up sexual intimacy, and that is a subject that you do discuss and deal with, and it's a large subject and somewhat complicated. But do you have any just sort of quick pearls of wisdom?

Speaker 2: 17:25

Yes, well, I'm a little bit after 50, I have a whole chapter that I go have the best sex of your life and that seems like it's got. That can't be real, really. I'm gonna tell you a story that I heard from somebody I interviewed two 70 year olds, man and woman, are making out like crazy in her living room it is their fifth date and they're on the sofa and her bed is just like a few feet away. So they're getting hot and heavy at it. And suddenly he stops and he says listen, I have to tell you something. I have a vascular problem. I can't get an erection, but I can give you pleasure. And she said that's great news, because having an erection of course, hurts.

Speaker 2: 18:09

Add these two people develop wonderful sexual relationship using their fingers of their tongue. I didn't get the details, but he made her happy and she made him happy. And that indicates the kind of vulnerability one because you're so intimate, you are your naked self and you have to say what you need, what you can't do, what hurts, what feels fabulous, and both people need to do that and it's incredibly intimate. It's not about performance and wham-bam thank you, ma'am and all of that. It's about feeling good together, being erotic, playful lovers.

Speaker 1: 18:52

And being able to communicate what it is. As you said, that is pleasurable, and what is not?

Speaker 2: 18:59

The image of it is just out Chor.

Speaker 1: 19:02

Ooh, that's good. Right, that's excellent. I wanted to ask you about and I don't know, I think it has a name, but this new I'll call it relationship whereby two older people are in a monogamous relationship but they decide that they do not want to live together, that they each have their own abode and, I guess, then spend time with one another when it works out. Is there a name for that? Yes, people living apart together and your feedback on that, or did you interview any people who were in that?

Speaker 2: 19:44

Oh, I sure did. There are plenty of people for whom this works for a lot of reasons. One, a lot of people, especially the older they are, really love their home and they like having their own space and they don't want to share it or live in a space with somebody else at their time of life, and, of course, both people have to be agreeable to this. Some of these people have fabulous relationships. They might spend five nights a week together, or the weekends and one night a week, or whatever. They may talk five times a day. They're deeply intimate, committed relationship. There are some other things.

Speaker 2: 20:24

There's some complications that this arrangement solves. For example, you don't have to worry about your finances or your legal status. Even people who don't marry but live together have to deal with a whole bunch of eventualities. What happens if he dies first? What happens if she needs caregiving? What happens if blah, blah, blah and have to draw up a lot of legal documents, etc. Etc. When you live apart together, your financial lives and your legal lives are separate from each other, except if you choose to give certain powers to the other one, but most people don't.

Speaker 2: 21:06

Also, there are a lot of people, mostly women, when they're older, especially if they've been a caregiver for a late husband, who are aware that their new partner is in the 70s or 80s and is not 100% healthy as who would expect them to be, and they don't want to be a hands-on, full-time caregiver. And, by the way, that's a subject people should bring up at the beginning of a relationship whether they're willing, whether they're not, and just say look, I have these resources. If I need caregiving, I don't expect you to do it. My children are available, I have long-term care insurance, I have enough resources that I can hire people whatever it is, and both people need to be. If that's the case, both people need to say you know what are your resources for caregiving? Fairly early in a relationship. That should happen Now, not everyone. There are some people, particularly men, who think that women should take care of them, but a lot of modern men don't, and it's got to be ironed out early on.

Speaker 1: 22:14

Important, definitely, and I know that you also have addressed the subject of dealing with hostile adult children who are not happy one bit that you have found a new partner. What suggestions can you offer for that situation?

Speaker 2: 22:36

I would say be sensitive to your children's feelings but don't give them a beat so that, for example, recognize that even if they're 50 and you're 80, you're getting a new partner, changes the relationship you have with them and it may involve loss. Maybe they were the person who was most there for you and talked to you five times a week and you relied on them, and that may be going to change. Maybe that your pop is a little girl in some way, even if you're 45. And you have feelings about this strange woman now being the central person in his life. And so you need to hear your kids out and sympathize with their feelings, because their feelings are not crazy.

Speaker 2: 23:28

Don't say to them you're f***ing, get over it. Listen to them, say I understand how you feel. I understand this is a change for you and it's difficult and I'm going to arrange to spend some a long time just you and me. You won't always have to be with us as a couple, but I also, I'm a grown woman and I need, I'm lonely for an adult relationship with a man and you need to understand this and be accepting and yes, grown up about it and what's the success rate of dealing with it that way, based on the women or men that you've interviewed?

Speaker 2: 24:07

Well, it's a lot better than ones who just ignore their kids' feelings. I'll tell you that. And very often it can be arranged so that you don't see your kids as a couple and you maybe you have family and he has family and you see your grandchildren separately, and there may be a couple times a year you do a holiday together when that's part of a big family event, or you know you can arrange it any way you want, in any way that it works for you, but you do have to tell your kids that, whatever their feelings, they have to be respectful to your partner.

Speaker 1: 24:44

That sounds like very good advice. I don't have the book in front of me, so I'm operating at a bit of a disadvantage. I would like to know what other areas chapter topics that we haven't discussed that you would like to share.

Speaker 2: 25:01

I think that the attitude you go into this with is very important. A lot of people go into this with negative attitudes. It's like they have to try and they sabotage themselves. Oh, this will never work. There are no good ones out there. I'm too old, blah, blah, blah. And I'm not thin enough and I'm not gorgeous enough and whatever. And all of those attitudes would just are useless. In fact, they're counterproductive.

Speaker 2: 25:32

There are literally millions of people out there not more gorgeous than you, not thinner than you, not younger than you, who are finding partners every day, but they have a different attitude. They aren't looking for Mr Handsome from the movies and they aren't presenting themselves that way. By the way, the Golden Bachelor was silly in how good all those people looked and how sexual they all were. But there are a lot of. I've seen so many couples. You know, when they just look like nice, you would think they were nice middle-aged people who had been married 40 years. They're fine. So you need to get rid of those negative assumptions. They're just wrong and they will trip you up.

Speaker 1: 26:21

Sabotage you. I'd love for you to give the full title of your book again. I'm assuming that it is available wherever fine books are sold, either online or in bricks and mortar bookstores.

Speaker 2: 26:37

Yes, it's available. It was published by Simon and Schuster and you can find it online. Certainly, I don't think it'll be in bookstores at this point, but you can find it at any online site. It's called Love After 50.

Speaker 1: 26:52

Help us find it, enjoy it and keep it, and I wish we could keep you a little longer, but alas we cannot. And I just have one other quick question, and that is are you still freelancing, Are you still writing? And if so, what are you up to these days?

Speaker 2: 27:10

I'm very much freelancing. I write a column. Every quarter of the Wall Street Journal has a retirement section called Encore for People Over 50. And I give advice on all kinds of emotional relationship issues for people over 50, of grandparenting adult children, you name it. I also write about psychology for Scientific American. So yes, I'm very busy and very happy doing it.

Speaker 1: 27:38

So people can check you out online and get a link to all of these other projects. Yes, I have to say that as I was looking at a lot of the titles of your work and it was like, wow, I could have her on to talk about grandparenting and wow, there's something else here. And it was like, no, Jane, just focus on the love after 50. But it was exciting and encouraging to see all that you are about and I want to thank you so much. I know you're a busy person. We had back and forth to get together on this, so I am so appreciative. Thank you very much. Oh, it's my great pleasure.

Speaker 2: 28:17

I've enjoyed this.

Speaker 1: 28:24

Thank you for joining me on this episode of Older Women and Friends. And, speaking of friends, please tell yours about this podcast and if you have any suggestions for future episodes or guests or anything else you'd like to share, go to speakpipecom. That's S-P-E-A-K-P-I-P-E dot com. Forward slash. Older women and friends. You can send me an audio message or respond to one of mine, because it is your feedback that drives this podcast Until next time.