Speaker 1: 0:05

Hi, I'm Jane Leder, host of Older Women and Friends. You know, when it comes right down to it, I find aging to be a complex affair Highs, lows and everything in between. But as I see it, the one constant is change, and the key is how we adjust, how we transition. Do we start a new career, Write that book we've had rolling around in our heads for years, Move to warmer climes to be near our grandchildren, Continue teaching or researching or coaching other women, or do we just hang out, travel and have a good time? The guests on Older Women and Friends have many stories to tell, to share, about what they've been up to and what they've learned along the way. So turn up the volume and join me on Older Women and Friends.

Speaker 1: 1:14

Women over 50 are a force to reckon with. There are 63 million of us and on average, we women live six years longer than men. That's the good news. The bad news is that many women will spend the last years of their lives dealing with a cascade of poor health. As someone said, men die quicker, but women get sicker. Maddie Dykwald, national bestselling author and co-founder of Age Wave, is out to change that. Her latest book Ageless Aging A Woman's Guide to Increasing Healthspan, Brainspan and Lifespan is a call to arms. I want to know what makes her tick, I want to know how and why she got into the whole subject of aging and I want to know about her personal story. Maddie, welcome to Older Women and Friends.

Speaker 2: 2:12

Thanks, jane. It's a pleasure to be here, great to be here with you.

Speaker 1: 2:16

I appreciate that, so I'd love for you to share your story. So let's start with your childhood. What was your childhood like and what kind of kid were?

Speaker 2: 2:26

you Well, Jane, I was kind of an introverted kid. I naturally was kind of shy, but I was forced out of that because my family had a pretty chaotic life adventure. We moved pretty much every three years throughout the time that I was growing up, I mean through high school. By the time I graduated high school, I had attended nine different schools. So you know, in order to just survive, I had to be very proactive, very, very friendly, and it wasn't really my nature, but it became something that I really enjoyed and loved doing and I became, you know, I became the new girl, the proverbial constant new girl, and you know, people like the new girl. They give the new girl a good chance. So, yeah, I've always been kind of. I've turned into a people, person.

Speaker 1: 3:22

So why did you move every couple of years?

Speaker 2: 3:25

My parents were really young when they got married. My mom was 18. My dad was 19. And they were very restless. They didn't exactly know who they were or where they wanted to live or how they wanted to live, and so, you know, they grew up in New Jersey, in Newark, new Jersey, which, by the way, is where my husband grew up also, just coincidentally. Yeah, they wanted to get out of it. They didn't want their parents to be butting into their lives, frankly. So they decided to move from New Jersey to Arizona and then from Phoenix to Scottsdale and then from Scottsdale we moved to California and we lived in about five or six different places in California. So it was like they were restless souls wanderers, if you will. My dad, way more than my mom. My mom kind of went along with the program but wasn't really thrilled with it. My dad loved it.

Speaker 1: 4:23

Well, this is a little off topic, but I'm just curious to know are they both still living?

Speaker 2: 4:29

Neither of them are still alive. My dad passed away when he was around 60, so he was very young when he died, and my mom passed away more recently. She was 86 years old when she died.

Speaker 1: 4:43

Wow, I'm sorry to hear that, but it sounds like you had a very interesting childhood and that set your path and pushed you along.

Speaker 2: 4:51

It made me like be more of a risk taker than I might've been otherwise. I mean, I think I might've been the slow and steady kind of person, but it forced me to. You know, I take all kinds of risks all the time, and but it forced me to. You know, I take all kinds of risks all the time, and you know, from a physical risk of trying new things to intellectual and career type risks.

Speaker 1: 5:12

So let's backtrack a little bit. So you've graduated from high school, you've gone to a gazillion schools, you're much more outgoing, you're willing to take risks.

Speaker 2: 5:25

So what did you do after high school? I went to college, like everybody else in the baby boomer generation, or most of us in the baby boom generation, especially women. We were the first generation of women to attend college in large numbers and started out at University of Wisconsin, then in Madison, which was kind of a crazy place to be. I mean it was really. It was a fun school. It was kind of a party school but also, you know, great education. And then I transferred, realizing that I really was interested in communications and theater. So I transferred to NYU and when I was going to school at NYU I actually worked as an actress, doing commercials, working on a soap opera. I mean, that was my first career.

Speaker 1: 6:11

So you went to school. You ultimately graduated from NYU. Ultimately being a key word there it took me like six years. How many. I'm sorry I was giggling.

Speaker 2: 6:21

It took me almost six years because I was working part of the time and you know I didn't want to give up the opportunities that came my way, knowing that they wouldn't always be there Once you did graduate.

Speaker 1: 6:35

what did you decide to do after that crazy six years, or whatever it took to finish at NYU?

Speaker 2: 6:43

You ended up with a degree in Theater and communication and, you know, worked as a. I was literally like a working actor, did lots of commercials. You know I it was. You know I never became a famous actress, I never really broke through, which is what led me to exploring other things. But you know, I'd spend, frankly, winters in LA and summers in New York because I was doing what's known as like the commercial circuit, or it was at the time. I don't know what they call it now.

Speaker 1: 7:16

And why did you at some point decide to try something different from that?

Speaker 2: 7:22

Well, you know, I became interested in a couple of reasons. Let me backtrack here. First of all, I found myself in my late 20s which at the time was considered it wasn't considered young in the world of acting and while I was a working actress, I wasn't my husband who I had known. So he claims he met me at a party in Miami when we were both going to college and I have no recollection of it, but that's what he said. And then he called me up when I was living in LA and he was living in the San Francisco Bay Area, me up when I was living in LA and he was living in the San Francisco Bay Area, and again he called me like a cold call. I had no idea who he was, but he called me. He said hey, you know, we have this friend in common and he suggested that I call you and I'm like okay, I'm not sure who you are, but sure let's talk.

Speaker 2: 8:28

You know, as I said, I got very friendly over the years. So we created this relationship via the phone, because there was no internet then. There was just, you know, phone or letters. He actually sent me all of his like books and articles on aging and I sent him, like my photos from the various shoots that I've been doing. So finally we met and this was literally like nine months later we met and it was, I wouldn't say, love at first sight, but love at first sight, after being in deep communication for months and months, really talking three, four hours at a time every time we talked, and we'd talk a few times a week. So you know, I don't think that kind of thing happens exactly that way anymore, but that's what happened to us, and I was intrigued by the work he was doing, because here I was in the field of acting, or television, if you will and there was this limit on women in particular, but women and men based on age.

Speaker 2: 9:41

If you didn't make it by the time you were in your early 30s, chances are you just never were going to make it big, and that was kind of depressing to me. I felt like, you know, I didn't want to be part of that narrative and so I became intrigued with this whole idea of aging and longevity and coincidentally, ken not even coincidentally he actually got me really interested in. Well, this is not just something that's happening in the field of acting, for instance. The whole idea is that there's big changes going on right here and right now and this was back in the 1980s in our world. We are moving from a youth-dominated, youth-focused world to one that's more dominated by older adults, and yet we cut people off when they're really young, and that doesn't seem like a great scenario for success. So I wanted to help change.

Speaker 1: 10:40

That Is that when you formed or started your organization, or was there a time? Oh, it was.

Speaker 2: 10:49

Yeah, pretty much Back in 1986, ken and I decided that we were going to start Age Wave. He came up with the name. I thought it was an awesome name and I thought, well, yeah, there's like this wave of older adults coming and we want to be the ones who talk about it. And so we literally started Age Wave at the kitchen table, not making that up, and grew into a substantial company, became leaders in the field of aging and longevity, looking at aging and longevity a little bit differently than everyone else.

Speaker 2: 11:23

I mean, at this time, 50 was considered over the hill and what we tried to do was, through keynote speeches and consulting and thought leadership studies, we tried to reach out to Fortune 50 companies and tell them no, you are missing the boat. There is this huge demographic of people in their 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s and it's growing in numbers and it's growing in household financial, discretionary income. The other thing that most of those companies didn't know at the time older adults are not necessarily brand loyal. They like trying new things and we got that message out there and it was embraced pretty effectively by a lot of big companies that really have influence on other, even smaller companies. So it was a very exciting, invigorating moment.

Speaker 1: 12:22

Well, you must have had a really great presentation, because I, just in my mind, I'm thinking really, those companies were extremely receptive and it sounds like they were, so maybe you just hit the perfect time with the perfect message. It's hard to know. So your company now has grown exponentially. How many people do you think are involved with you directly?

Speaker 2: 12:51

Well, are you talking about clients or employees? Because you know the whole dynamic around employees has dramatically transformed since COVID. I mean, everyone's working remotely and not everyone is full-time employees anymore. But we have a network of people that we work with on a regular basis, have worked with for literally a decade or more, and that's really great. We give them a lot of flexibility. They give us a lot of flexibility. So our graphic designer is based in London. Our head of research is based in Virginia Beach. Our key writer of reports and who digs deep into a lot of our research, he's based in Miami and Boston. So you can see that you know we're really all over our country and it's given us the ability to like really be flexible, but also to move very swiftly to really get things done in a very effective way.

Speaker 1: 13:52

Well, the central premise of your latest book is that older women who are living longer and, as I said in the intro, on average six years longer than men, are not prepared for the gift of extended lifespan. Why do you think that is yeah, well, you know.

Speaker 2: 14:10

First let's look at the data. We know women have won this longevity lottery. We do, as you said, live on average, six years longer than men, but also, on average, live on average six years longer than men, but also, on average, we spend the last 14 years in a cascade of poor health. You know that could be aches and pains or chronic degenerative disease like diabetes or heart disease or cancer. I mean, these are realities that strike women in higher numbers than they strike men. As you said in your introduction, women live longer, but they also get sicker, and it's not a pretty picture.

Speaker 2: 14:50

But but and this is the focus of my book primarily is that there is a bright side to this dark scenario and that is that the most recent science tells us that it's not genetic so much as it is our lifestyle and our environment that really impact our health and well-being. 90% up to 90% of our health and well-being is literally within our control, and that's the latest science. And that could be depressing to some people. They could say, oh no, I'm responsible. Or they could say, wow, I have complete agency over my health and well-being and if I know the right information and I have the right action steps, I have the possibility of really thriving as I get older, not getting sicker and sicker.

Speaker 1: 15:46

And personally I was absolutely stunned when I read that in your book and for me I was joyful. I just thought, ok, we can make a change. We can live healthy, happy, aware lives until we don't. So what's the title of your book Ageless Aging really mean? Good question.

Speaker 2: 16:11

Yeah, when I was thinking about titles, I began to remember how, way back in the 1990s, I was doing a keynote speech down in San Diego to a group, a large group of very high-level executive women and we were talking. At the end the question came up about well, what do we call aging? Aging has like negative connotations. So is it anti-aging? Do we want to be anti-aging? Well, honestly, aging is a process that starts in the womb and goes all the way to the day we die. So we don't want to be anti, that do we.

Speaker 2: 16:50

And this idea of pro-aging, it just didn't kind of roll off the tongue in a way that made us excited. So we started brainstorming terms and we came up with ageless aging. And in that meeting I literally looked it up in the dictionary and what I saw was the very first word that came when you looked up ageless was timeless. And I kind of loved that, loved the idea that, okay, well, we can't hold back the hands of time, that's not happening but what we can do is we can take steps, we can take actions that can really not necessarily eliminate, but possibly eliminate, certainly delay, the onset of those aches and pains and those chronic degenerative diseases and those bad attitudes that might come with aging, and those are the things that are literally within our control. And having that kind of control it gives us enormous agency and I just love that.

Speaker 1: 17:56

What are some of those steps that women can take to balance, as you say, their lifespan, their healthspan and their brain span? And clearly that is a gigantic topic because you wrote a beautiful book about it. But if. I were to say I don't know. Give me maybe three steps that women can take to allow themselves to live happy and healthy lives.

Speaker 2: 18:21

First, let me say that, in order to write this book because I'm not a doctor and I'm not a scientist, so I felt like, oh okay, I'm a curator of information I've spent the last 40 years of my life digging deep into this whole subject of aging, longevity and retirement, and along the way, I've had the great opportunity to talk to the leaders at the cutting edge physicians, researchers, academicians which is incredible and I called on them Literally. I spoke to almost 100 of them in order to write this book effectively, and so what I began to realize after talking to a bunch of them is that you know what? It's not just about one thing. It's about a bouquet of different ingredients that are all important and, most importantly, they all work together. Just for example, if it's not just what you eat, but when you eat that really matters, that's where this whole idea of intermittent fasting comes into play.

Speaker 2: 19:29

But it's been kind of misunderstood. People assume, oh, we should do what the biohackers do spend 16, 18 hours not eating. Well, no, I spoke to the man, dr Walter Longo, who came up with the whole concept of intermittent fasting, and he told me particularly for women, very bad idea. It actually can create health problems, he said, spend 12 or 13 hours without eating, which is kind of easy to do. But if you're eating a healthy diet and you're getting rid of the bad things like ultra-processed foods and seed oils and sugar, you're going to sleep better. And if you sleep better, this is really important. Sleep is like a superpower in order to keep your brain health in particular. So if you sleep better, that's when your brain gets rid of all the toxins in your system and you want to get rid of those toxins. And if you're sleeping better, you're going to have more energy and vitality for exercise and for social connections and so on. So you can see the interconnection between all of these different ingredients and they all work together. So to me, that's the most important thing.

Speaker 1: 20:46

I love your term, a bouquet. I'm thinking a buffet, a bouquet, but they all work. It's, as you say, taking many different, in this case, steps, putting them together, just like we would do a beautiful flower arrangement, and, you know, take it from there. Can you talk about some of the really surprising ideas or research that you discovered while you were writing? Ageless Aging?

Speaker 2: 21:17

I wanted to write this book for women, because when I looked out at all the books on longevity and there's a lot of books on longevity I didn't see books that were focused specifically for women, or very few books that were focused specifically for women, and even if it was by a woman, it would make it even better.

Speaker 2: 21:38

So that was one thing for sure. And then, second, when I began to really dig deep into the subject, what I realized was there's a lot of differences between women and men when it comes to longevity, even beyond the fact that women live longer and get a little bit sicker. But you know, just take exercise which, by the way, many of the experts I spoke to said well, if there is a silver bullet, it's probably exercise. It's really a key to increasing your health span and your brain span, a little differently than you might think, because that muscle strengthening element of exercise becomes even more important as you get older. It's kind of like well, actually, according to a new study that came out from the Annals of Medicine, they said that muscle strength should be a new vital sign, similar to our blood pressure or to our heart rate. I mean, it's that important, that's fascinating it is, it's totally fascinating.

Speaker 2: 22:41

What's super cool is that women can get the same benefits as men from exercise without exercising as hard or as long. Now that's kind of cool. I love it. We have one benefit through it. However, most of the drugs out there that we're all taking haven't been tested on women, and that's a serious problem. It wasn't until 2016 that the FDA told pharma companies. You know you really ought to include women in your clinical trials and they still don't always do it, but it's happening more and more and that's good news. But you know, the health care system in general really isn't designed for women. I mean, you talk about women's health and you think reproductive health.

Speaker 1: 23:29

Yeah, I was just sort of sitting here thinking, yes, I agree. Are you optimistic about the future for women in our society in terms of living long, happy, healthy lives?

Speaker 2: 23:44

I think we women have a couple advantages over men that I haven't mentioned yet.

Speaker 1: 23:49

Just a couple.

Speaker 2: 23:51

Well, maybe a lot of them. We have some challenges. We also have some opportunities that are unique to women. One of the unique things about women is that we are very social beings, we love to socialize, and all the studies that are coming out on longevity is beginning to recognize the fact that social connections and staying socially active is a super important ingredient in this recipe for ageless aging.

Speaker 2: 24:21

I mean it's super important and you know, it's not like you don't have to have a hundred friends and, you know, talk to them all. I mean, that's like a different kind of thing If you have three or four people who you can count on in your life and then you have some, you know, sort of acquaintance type, not even even acquaintances, just people who you see during the day. Like, for instance, I went for coffee this morning. When I went for coffee I said hi to the barista and because I've been doing that for a while, he knows my name. We talk, we schmooze a little bit, it's kind of nice, but again, that's a very low-key relationship but it's still, you know, it's social interaction. The key here is that we know that the lack of social connection, loneliness, can literally be the same as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. Wow, that's the kind of impact it can have on our health.

Speaker 1: 25:15

And another one of those important building blocks is purpose. Is it not having a purpose in life? Why is that important?

Speaker 2: 25:26

Yeah, I think we all kind of intuitively understand that purpose is. You know, the idea of having meaning in your life is a reason to get out of bed in the morning. And when I spoke with Mark Friedman, who is a social entrepreneur, he told me, you know, some people are overwhelmed by this idea of purpose because they think, oh, I've got to start a nonprofit or I've got to reinvent myself. Well, you know, some people want to do that. Other people want to have a reason to get out of bed in the morning and you know, that reason could be something as simple as taking care of your grandkids or, if your kids are still young, your kids Taking care of your dog. I know, for me, I love getting up in the morning to walk my dog. So it doesn't have to be purpose with a big P, it can be purpose with a little p.

Speaker 2: 26:21

In a study we did at Age Wave, we found two really interesting things. First, we found that the number one way people, women in particular have a sense of purpose is spending time with their family. And then we then asked Americans of all ages, we asked them, men and women, if you were to do one thing to have a bigger sense of purpose. What would it be? And they said, adopting a pet. I love that.

Speaker 1: 26:47

Except not my best friend, because she got a barker.

Speaker 1: 26:52

But that's a whole other story. Well, I wanted to read something to end that was in your book, which I thought was lovely. It's never too late to invest in your well-being or to reinvent yourself. It is possible to get better and better as you age. Let's take off together. Let's do that. I'm so delighted that you're here and that listeners will have a chance to benefit from all of the information that you have garnered over decades of working on this subject. It's a delight to have had you. I appreciate it and hope we'll have a chance to talk again down the road.

Speaker 2: 27:34

I appreciate that.

Speaker 1: 27:35

Jane, Thanks for inviting me thank you for joining me on this forward slash, older women and friends. You can send me an audio message or respond to one of mine, because it is your feedback that drives this podcast. Until next time.